Science Fiction, Fantasy &amp; Horror Forums

Posted 2015-03-09 5:33 PM (#9846 - in reply to #9162)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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Finished my 1951 book, Between Planets by Heinlein. Can't say I was impressed. If I had been a teenage boy growing up in the 1950's I would probably have loved it, but I am none of those things, and it did nothing for me at all. Lots of running around deering-do by teenager on the loose who manages to save everyone.

And I can't get over the fact that Venus somehow has a native population, and they are dragons. Why would they be a creature out of earth's mythology? They should be something completely different.

Next up: City by Clifford Simak

Posted 2015-03-12 4:55 AM (#9863 - in reply to #9162)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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I just noticed the new reading levels. I am going for 15 books. I will have a chance to read some of the early books,and do a reread of Day of the Triffids and Double Star,which I have been itching to do but had new authors i wanted to read. I would have loved to do the full 20,but couldnt locate any more in the library system.As it is,I reckon locating the books for this challenge will cost me around $40 in total,and I cant afford to spend more than that!And some of the prices for even secondhand SF classics are totally ridiculous. II am going back to fill in Weapon Shops of Isher and City at World's End,then read Double Star and Day of the Triffids. Great fun!

mj122955

Posted 2015-03-12 1:12 PM (#9865 - in reply to #9162)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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Richard Matheson's I Am Legend is my 1954 book. I finished it today. It's a dystopian novel that reads like a Saturday afternoon matinee. Workmanlike prose marches the story along. The book aims to be a scary vampire tale and it succeeds in that respect, but character development is minimal.

Favorite quote:
"There were no psychiatrists left to murmur of groundless neuroses and auditory hallucinations. The last man in the world was irretrievably stuck with his delusions."

DrNefario

Posted 2015-03-14 4:39 AM (#9874 - in reply to #9162)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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I started Childhood's End last night, and was surprised to be reading about Kennedy's speech and Armstrong and Gagarin. Either Clarke was really really good at this futurism lark, or he tweaked it a bit for later editions.

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Posted 2015-03-14 7:59 AM (#9875 - in reply to #9874)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

DrNefario - 2015-03-14 4:39 AM

I started Childhood's End last night, and was surprised to be reading about Kennedy's speech and Armstrong and Gagarin. Either Clarke was really really good at this futurism lark, or he tweaked it a bit for later editions.

I've wondered if science fiction writers had a chance to revise their work in later editions to fix glaring errors. I don't like that idea at all though.

DrNefario

Posted 2015-03-14 8:18 AM (#9876 - in reply to #9162)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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According to Wikipedia, the revised first chapter was written in 1990. It's odd that the Masterwork version of this goes for the revised text, while the Masterwork version of City, my 1952 book, did not include the extra ninth story added later.

Edited by DrNefario 2015-03-14 8:20 AM

gallyangel

Posted 2015-03-14 1:27 PM (#9877 - in reply to #9875)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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Guest - 2015-03-14 5:59 AM

I've wondered if science fiction writers had a chance to revise their work in later editions to fix glaring errors. I don't like that idea at all though.

If I remember correctly there were, as you say, glaring errors of a scientific kind, like the earth spinning backwards or something so obviously wrong like that in the first edition of the Ringworld, that Niven had to make revisions for later editions. It was just to embarrassing to leave them.

And, of course, the first edition of The Hobbit, is different than the current edition. As Tolkien was integrating the Hobbit into his material for LOTRs, the character of Gollum had to be revised considerably from the first edition.

So there are times where it does happen. And Plenty of times when it simply doesn't. Depends on the work and the author, is my guess.

Posted 2015-03-14 2:47 PM (#9878 - in reply to #9877)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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gallyangel - 2015-03-14 1:27 PM

Guest - 2015-03-14 5:59 AM I've wondered if science fiction writers had a chance to revise their work in later editions to fix glaring errors. I don't like that idea at all though.

If I remember correctly there were, as you say, glaring errors of a scientific kind, like the earth spinning backwards or something so obviously wrong like that in the first edition of the Ringworld, that Niven had to make revisions for later editions. It was just to embarrassing to leave them. And, of course, the first edition of The Hobbit, is different than the current edition. As Tolkien was integrating the Hobbit into his material for LOTRs, the character of Gollum had to be revised considerably from the first edition. So there are times where it does happen. And Plenty of times when it simply doesn't. Depends on the work and the author, is my guess.

I think it was very common for writers to change content from their magazine versions of their stories/serials when they were reprinted as books. But still, I like to think of books as unchanging, reflecting the times in which they were written.

Posted 2015-03-14 2:54 PM (#9879 - in reply to #9162)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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One problem I think many of these 1950s SF books have is they are close to first drafts. A lot of writers back then wrote quickly, sometimes publishing more than one book a year, and wrote for paperback publishers that didn't pay much so they gave their books little work time. They are all action, with little character development. Most were under 200 pages, so they make a quick read, but that also means they aren't fleshed out compared to modern novels. Many of these books are fun to remember, but disappointing when compared to all the better books I've read in the last fifty years.

Weesam didn't like Between Planets, but it holds up well for me today. Not as good as the top Heinlein juveniles, but much better than most other 1950s SF. However, I can never tell if my enjoyment of rereading it today comes from nostalgia or if the book is actually a well-written story.

Edited by jwharris28 2015-03-14 2:55 PM

Posted 2015-03-15 1:34 AM (#9880 - in reply to #9162)
Subject: RE: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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That's interesting. I hadn't thought about why the 1950's books are so short, with lots of action and little development.

I don't think I disliked Between Planets, I just didn't connect with it in any way. I thought that might be because I am a 49 year old female living in 2015, rather than a 14 year old boy living in the 1950's who would have found it fun.

However, I recently read Iceworld by Hal Clement, which also seems to have been written for a younger audience, also had science that was just ridiculous from the 2015 point of view, yet I thoroughly enjoyed it. I also really liked City by Clifford Simak. Why do we like one, and not another? Go figure!

Posted 2015-03-15 1:36 AM (#9881 - in reply to #9880)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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Ahh, technology is defeating me! The above post was from me, I seem to have become logged out!

Posted 2015-03-15 4:24 AM (#9882 - in reply to #9881)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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Since Weesam has mentioned Iceworld,I can suppose we are up to 1953 at last? With 18 books listed this was the busiest year of the decade.Most listed are
Fahrenheit 451 - 11 lists
Childhood's End - 10 lists
More Than Human - 8 lists
Honourable mentions - Bring the Jubilee (5) and Space Merchants (5)
So how many have we read previously to the challenge? What do we want to read now?.

...........just got visitors,its Mothers Day here in UK,so I'll get back to you later!

I do wish you could add or edit these posts at a later time! Sometimes when I'm in a hurry I mess them up,and cringe later when I see my errors and cant put them right!

Edited by dustydigger 2015-03-15 4:28 AM

DrNefario

Posted 2015-03-15 4:54 AM (#9883 - in reply to #9162)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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I'd previously read Fahrenheit 451 (I'm almost certain), and Second Foundation. Since I already owned Childhood's End and More Than Human, and hadn't read either, I didn't spend much time looking into the rest.

Posted 2015-03-15 7:51 AM (#9884 - in reply to #9882)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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dustydigger - 2015-03-15 4:24 AM Since Weesam has mentioned Iceworld,I can suppose we are up to 1953 at last? With 18 books listed this was the busiest year of the decade.Most listed are Fahrenheit 451 - 11 lists Childhood's End - 10 lists More Than Human - 8 lists Honourable mentions - Bring the Jubilee (5) and Space Merchants (5) So how many have we read previously to the challenge? What do we want to read now?. .(

I'm picking books that are on few or no lists hoping to find books that should have gotten more attention. Generally though, I'm finding books that should have been forgotten. I guess time has helped us spot all the good ones. BTW, I have an edit button so I can go back to redo a message. I don't know how long it stays there, so if I go away and come back can I still edit messages.

Posted 2015-03-15 4:30 PM (#9886 - in reply to #9883)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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Great year,1953! I had previously read 6/18 books;
Fahrenheit 451 - a slightly odd dystopic mix of totalitarian censorship and nuclear destruction. I would presume Bradbury had read George Orwell's 1984?Bradbury was very passionate about censorship. Remember that savage story in Martian Chronicles where someone murdered all the people who wanted to impose censorship on him when he built a house based on Poe's stories?,and I thought the story jarred with the rest of the Chronicles? Well here Bradbury certainly made an impassioned diatribe againnt censorship by extrapolating to a totalitarian state whiere firemen dont put out fires but burn books? At least Bradbury gives us a glimmer of hope,and it is poignant and poetic,less relentlessly downbeat than Orwell. I would agree that this will survive a long time.It still seems fresh,despite censorship is finding it difficult to suppress freedom of speech in these days of social media etc
Childhood's End. I found this book slightly repellent. Books about Transcendent aliens make me slightly suspicious. I kept wondering if these children uplifted to some higher power were really merged with the entity,or if they were just a meal to them! lol. A surfeit on my part of reading about dastardly devious aliens,perhaps? The callous way the whole of mankind were disposed off,and the suffering of the children lying in their own filth waiting for transcendence didnt seem very highly ethical at all. All that religion bashing didnt go down well with me either,but that is just my personal opinion. The Overlords were interesting,and the fate of the last human was poignant.but all in all it wasnt my cup of tea.
More Than Human. Sturgeon's b with compassion anest novel. He was theidol of awhole generation of youngerb authors,but mostly for short stories,but today known mostly for this book. He was an excellent literary author,could draw vivid characters. This is a fix up novel,of course. So many of the 50s books were,but this is well written. We really focus on the characters in a sensitive compassionate way. The usual focus on psychiatry and psi powers is there in abundance,but being well written and evenhanded(no transcendent humans tossing away the old humans like rubbish).its base on people is enough to rise above from trends of the time. I really hope that those who havent yet read this book will choose it for their 1953 read. Well worthwhile your attention
Second Foundation - Oh dear,I have made my lukewarm feelings to the Foundation series earlier. Not my cup of tea,didnt like the whole psychohistory premise,no characterisation,very bitty,even for a fix up. Nuff said.
The Space Merchants. Opinion seems divided here,Jim was disappointed,Rhonda loved it,I had good vibes about it butnafter decades cant be surehow I would feel now. Will be interested in the views of challenge readers!
Starman Jones - One of Heinlein's fun juveniles a light fun read about a young boy who manages to wangle his way into the crew of a space ship.Resourceful,with an eidetic memory he has lots of adventures. The science on the spaceship is so dated,so cumbersome,but Henlein grabs our attention from the start,and we root for the young man.Good fun, a quick enjoyable read,though not spectacular. Nice and pleasant.
For the challenge I read Iceworld and The Black Star Passes.

Posted 2015-03-15 4:39 PM (#9887 - in reply to #9886)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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I am bothered by Clarke's hang-up that we need uplifting by superior aliens. He does this in both Childhood's End and 2001: A Space Odyssey. It also bothered me that Clarke, a scientist, believed that psychic powers were the next stage of human development. With Clarke's stories it's very easy to see how aliens have replaced God, and outer space has replaced heaven, so science fiction appears like a substitute for religion.

Give me Heinlein any day - especially a story like Starman Jones where Sam uplifts his own self by his bootstraps.

Posted 2015-03-15 6:53 PM (#9888 - in reply to #9162)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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I'm mostly going with books I haven't read before. There were quite a lot of good books to choose from in 1953, of which I had previously read four.

I am trying to do two books from each year, and I chose to go with Iceworld (because I was intrigued by the cover) and More Than Human. More Than Human has been on my bookshelf for years, so it really was time to read it. I don't know what to think of it. It wasn't what I expected at all, but had such an intriguing premise. It is a book that I think needs a second reading. It was very different to the 'just plain good fun' Iceworld.

Posted 2015-03-16 2:34 AM (#9891 - in reply to #9888)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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Jim,like you I greatly prefer Starman Jones to theClarke. I wonder if RAH had problems with the editors with this one,because the ethical situation,lying to get a job etc isnt the usual squeaky clean upright sort of thing expected of young heroes. I know at the end he gets heavily fined,but its still a bit dodgy. There are all sorts of interesting things in the book,from the rather stark home life with the unpleasant stepfather to be,the rather mediaeval Guild structure of society the fun encounters later with the alien centaur like race,and of course,Sam - liar, thief,deserter and all round shifty character!An unusual sidekick for a 1950s juvenile hero!
The tech is very odd. They have spaceships and computers,yet,just like sailing ships of yore,course positions and corrections have to be done by hand,and trig and log functions all have to be done from tables! I was wishing I could give Max my daughters smartphone,which would have sorted things out in seconds!. Its very strange just how limited ideas about computers were at that time.
I really like Starman Jones,well plotted,well written,full of twists and surprises. A fun read. And here the alien s make no bones about wanting to kill people. No transcendence like Clarke. I am still sceptical about that!
By the way,so sorry for the badly done post earlier.I had a stroke last year,and though I have recovered well I have been left with a heavy handed right typing hand!. I make a lot of errors,and extra letters get between words. Normally I edit,but as I was finishing that post I got interrupted,and it was a couple of hours before I got back to it,and I was too late to correct it. I am cringing looking at it! lol. Make allowances for me

Posted 2015-03-16 2:40 AM (#9892 - in reply to #9162)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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1953 - Iceworld by Hal Clement. Drugs Squad boss Rade is struggling with the repercussions of a dangerous drug. Only one dose causes immediate addiction, and agony and madness ensues if the addict cant get a fix. Addicts will pay exorbitant amounts for it, and Rade has traced it to a disreputable, ruthless and dangerous spaceship owner who has obviously discovered a supply on some unidentified planet. In desperation Rade infiltrates Ken, a high school science teacher, into the ship's crew. The smuggler wants to discover more about the drug so he can grow it instead of trading with the natives for it. Rade wants concrete evidence against the smuggler. And Ken, your typical scientist, while working for both of them, is consumed with the desire to learn more about the strange planet, its dangerous drug,and its possibly cultured inhabitants. Only problem is that the planet is about 400 degrees colder than home! Ken will need all his scientific thought processes to gain the knowledge he needs while hiding his treachery from the avaricious, and vicious, smuggler.

A nice little story which has a neat twist 10 pages in when we realize that Ken and the others are aliens with tentacles and live on a planet with a toasty 500 degree temperature,and of course the cold planet is Earth. Most of the story is told from the aliens point of view,and we watch with interest as Ken explores this weird and frightening world which has nightmare conditions. Why it doesnt even have a breathable sulphur atmosphere, and it has huge amounts of liquid on it. A frightening but fascinating place indeed, and it takes Ken all his ingenuity to rig up experiments, and to avoid freezing to death in the horrifically low temperatures.

A light fun read, though sometimes clunkily written in typical Clement style, but engaging and entertaining. Oh and the drug of course is tobacco!

Posted 2015-03-16 9:03 AM (#9895 - in reply to #9162)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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Sorry to hear about your stroke Dusty. I assume you're older then? I'm 63. I wonder how many of us here are older, or younger? How many of us are reading these old books out of nostalgia? And how many are younger people are digging into the past?

I think I keep reading these 1950s SF books to recapture how I felt about science fiction when I first discovered it in early 1960s. Even before I knew there was a genre called science fiction, I was searching libraries for books with science fictional elements. I found kids books like Danny Dunn series, Tom Swift, Jr. and of course those literary drug trips, the Oz series.

pizzakarin

Posted 2015-03-16 12:28 PM (#9896 - in reply to #9895)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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I'm 30 and doing the challenge to pick up some of the "classics" that I hadn't gotten to yet. My book choices for the challenge tend to be the fairly well-known books, though I did find one to overlap with my Women in Genre Fiction challenge which was nice. Ultimately, I like to see how these books inspire and inform my favorites.

Posted 2015-03-16 12:31 PM (#9897 - in reply to #9896)
Subject: Re: The Definitive 1950s Reading Challenge

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pizzakarin - 2015-03-16 12:28 PM

I'm 30 and doing the challenge to pick up some of the "classics" that I hadn't gotten to yet. My book choices for the challenge tend to be the fairly well-known books, though I did find one to overlap with my Women in Genre Fiction challenge which was nice. Ultimately, I like to see how these books inspire and inform my favorites.

Pizzakarin, you'll be a good test subject then, for learning how old books works with young people. What are some of your all-time favorite SF books. I can't imagine a young person preferring old stuff to the exciting stuff that's coming out today.